Artificial Intelligence Real Talk

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen,
friends and followers.

We are on the last episode of a
Vision for Learning and the first

episode of Artificial Intelligence,
real Talk with Eli Davis.

So what we're gonna do is we're gonna
take this podcast, has started out

being about a vision for learning
and artificial intelligence and

virtual reality, augmented reality.

And we're gonna shift just a little bit
because the conversation and the emphasis

has gone towards artificial intelligence.

And so we're gonna bring in Eli Davis.

Let me read Eli's bio real quick.

is an educator, researcher and
thought leader, passionate about

the intersections of artificial
intelligence, education, and equity.

He's a PhD candidate in teaching
and learning at the University of

South Carolina, and he explores the
Transformative power of AI to foster

critical thinking, creativity, and
inclusivity in educational settings.

Drawing from his experience as a special
education teacher and adjunct professor,

he champions the use of AI as a tool
for empowering educators and students

alike, a relentless seeker of knowledge.

Eli's work blends scientific
inquiry and cultural consciousness,

positioning him as a voice for
innovation and healing and education.

I'm so excited for what you're
bringing to this podcast.

It's gonna be just awesome.

So thank you for picking up the baton
and saying, I've got a voice and

an opinion that needs to be shared.

Well, well, thank you very
much for inviting me, Jethro.

This is a an amazing.

Opportunity and, you know when
you, when you are studying healing,

you have to, well, I feel it's,
it's nice to try to heal yourself.

So I go to therapy and my therapist,
I. And told me, she said, she said,

Hey Eli, people need to hear you.

I said, for

real.

So thank you for the opportunity.

You are, you are, you know what I mean?

You, you are making my
therapist look like something.

well, happy to support your therapist.

That's great.

this originally came about because
Ross Romano, who's a, a partner at the

B Podcast Network met you and said,
man, Jethro, I think Eli needs to have

his own show and we need to support
him and, and get him going on it.

And as I've looked at where this
podcast has gone, it's definitely

veered towards ai and so.

It makes sense that AI would
would be the focus going forward.

And so you have a different perspective
than I do, which I think is valuable.

What are some of the things that you
are bringing to the table that you

think are important as we talk and think
about AI in education specifically?

How to use AI as a as a partner.

Instead of using AI as a crutch, but also
how to navigate using AI as a crutch and

having it so that it can enhance your
thinking, your ideas, and also offer

a. A tool for organiz organizing ideas.

I one of the, one of the coolest
things that you can do with

artificial intelligence is to
brainstorm right inside the interface.

And then you can go ahead and say,
can you organize some of these ideas?

One of the things that I struggled
with when I, when I, especially

when I first started my PhD
program, was organizing my thoughts.

My, my instructors would consistently
say that this, you, you did this,

you said this, this was redundant.

This, you know, I would get a lot
of feedback from, from my writing.

But what I, what I know, and this was
using artificial intelligence inside

of my special education classroom and
watching my students use artificial

intelligence to organize their ideas,
especially when they have abstract ideas.

Some of them are not connecting.

They don't, they don't have the
ability to, to express their cognitive

thought in a way that will be clear.

So, you know, using artificial
intelligence as a tool,

as a thought partner.

That's, that's where,
that's where I want to go.

And you know playing the guitar,
I know what an instrument does.

You know what I mean?

It allows you to, well, and it allows
you to scream, it allows you to,

to say something sometimes that you
have in your heart, but you don't

have the ability to articulate it.

And that is what I believe the artificial
intelligence is really good for.

Yeah, I, I, I agree with that
and I just wanna share a brief

story about that opportunity
where AI can enhance something.

So my oldest daughter has Down
Syndrome and she can communicate,

I. But it's not great most of the
time, and you gotta work really hard

to understand what she's saying.

And one of the amazing things is that when
we gave her a phone when she was a senior

in high school, she started texting us
and she started texting us full sentences.

I. And because she was able to use
the predictive text, she was able

to say things and spell things that
she just did not know how to do.

Now that was cool that she could now
text us, but what made it even better

is that as we've had AI be developed
and we can start using it, is she's been

able to text some of those things write
some of those things down in text form.

Then be able to put that into chat
GBT and have it create something that,

here's the key Eli that is true to her
heart and what she really believes that

is not capable of articulating just

yet.

Now it, it cannot think for her, it can.

Come up with things and have it be
true to her if it's not something that,

that she that she's putting in there.

But I, she, we wanted her to write
a letter to, like a Christmas

letter to all of her friends and
stuff that she could send out.

So she did, and she typed it in the way
that she's, that she's comfortable with.

And then we put it in the chatt and it
expressed, it captured her personality.

It expressed who she was,
what she cared about.

Oh my goodness, Eli, I can't go back.

To her not having a voice.

You know what I mean?

Yes one of my students, you know um,
and this is when chat GPT like had

just come out and I you know, and I
pulled it up on the screen and he did

just, you know, he didn't have the
ability to, to, to take his cognitive

thought and then to write it out.

It, it just, it is just
always become distorted.

He, you know, and then
to have him take his.

His distorted sentence, his thought,
and then press enter, and to see his

eyes open when he read his sentence.

I mean, when he read what it
came out with, it was amazing.

It was as if you have
given this person a gift.

That is so powerful and.

That is not the case for
every single person that's out

there, and I wouldn't pretend that it
was the case, but the fact that we can

give voice to someone who had hasn't
had a voice is incredibly powerful

and, and that's the kind of beauty
and amazing part that I, that I want

to focus on and have, be a part of.

Of what we're doing and because
of your background and what you've

done professionally and how you're
approaching this, that's what I'm

seeing you, that you're gonna bring
to this conversation about AI and

education.

And so you've interviewed
a few people already.

Do you wanna just talk about some
of the people that you've got

coming on and some of the, the
big ideas that you're gonna share?

Oh, most definitely.

So I have Dr. Teasdale.

Dr. Teasdale is a professor at
the university of Clark Atlanta.

And she is I think she's
coming off of a TED Talk.

On how to use artificial intelligence
with students with DYS dyslexia.

So we had a really interesting
conversation about that.

We have we have Dr. Tier McMurtry, Dr.
Tier McMurtry is a university professor

at the university Alabama, Birmingham.

She also is my wife and yeah.

So but, you know, we have, we've
been having these real interesting

conversations about her students
using artificial intelligence

and how, how they use it and you
know how to effectively use it.

Also, you know she publishes a lot as
well and, and how she uses artificial

intelligence to, to publish these
very very deep, thorough articles

that are published into these.

Major journals you know,
so educational journals.

That's one of, one of 'em.

I also have a a, a dear friend of mine.

Who is a, a professor at a community
college in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

And you know, we, we had a
really good conversation.

Her, her brother, brother was
my best friend and he passed

away when he was around 27.

So you know we, we just took a really
interesting journey on, on our lives.

We hadn't talked in, in years,
so it was very fascinating.

I just hit her up.

And, I have another friend Quan
Dorsey, who, who used to be the I

forget the name of the governor,
but the governor of Kentucky.

It was the Democratic
governor a few years back.

And he used to be the elite community
liaison person, and currently he's

a, the the director of equity and
inclusion for the school district

in Kentucky, in Louisville.

I think it's Jefferson County.

So, you know, and, and we, and we
discussed you know, how equity and

inclusion looks inside of artificial
intelligence and also how it can be

used to uplift communities and provide
an additional resource for people.

So, you know, we, we've, I, we've been
having some really good conversations.

Yeah.

So those, those are gonna be coming
out here in the next few weeks.

Definitely stay subscribed,
send it to your friends.

Also leave ratings
interviews in Apple podcasts.

That is the best way to help other
people see it and, and hear it.

Part of the strategy that we're
doing with this podcast is using a

podcast feed that already exists.

For people who are already interested
in this topic, and some of you may have

been listening for the augmented reality
and artificial reality stuff that we

have been talking about, I'm sorry if
that if that's you and you don't want

anything to do with this AI stuff but if
that is you and you wanna do a podcast

about that, I'm happy to help you get
one started about that specific topic.

We've had a lot of good stuff on here.

Those episodes are still gonna
stay, you'll still be able to find

them and, and go back and listen
to them and share them with people.

We've had some really great guests
but it's, it's also a good time

to evolve and continue growing.

So, the other thing that I wanted to
chat with you about is we we had a

little email conversation yesterday
and today that, that I thought was,

uh, was really good around this topic.

And like so many things, the, the,
the advent of AI has a way to disrupt

and change how things are done.

And one of the things that we were, we
were talking about, I wrote a, a blog

post yesterday and I shared it with you.

And so that is at Jethro
site slash oh, what was it?

Jethro dot site slash Oh, very long thing.

So I'll put it in the show notes.

But we talked about students needing
human relationships to thrive, and

it was about an article from the 74.

Million million that talked about
where chatbots could start doing

a career in college counseling
for high school students.

And, and my, my big thing is that if we
approach these problems from a certain

perspective, I. Then the solutions
don't actually solve the problem, and

oftentimes they just exacerbate it.

And one of my main approaches to
education is that education is the

responsibility of the family and the state
steps in to support when that happens.

And and you wrote back with a different
perspective that I appreciated that

we'll get to in just a second, but.

That did not take away
from my original point.

It was exactly the same.

And the, the problem is, is that
when we say that education is the

state's responsibility, then we put
all the pressure on the states to

provide all of that and do everything.

And, and they need to
support students for sure.

But if we flip it just a little bit
and we say the responsibilities on

the families and the state steps in.

To help and support that is,
that is a different approach.

And so what to me that says
is we can release the burden

of taking care of everybody.

And this is, I wanna read a quote from
Julia Freeland Fisher from this article.

She said, this is a domain where chatbots
are especially likely to take hold.

On average high schools have one guidance
counselor for every 385 students.

That perspective one counselor for every
385 students, that right there says it's

my responsibility as a counselor to take
care of these 385 students, is a lot.

And it's impossible to keep
track of that many kids as you're

just not gonna be successful.

But if we turn it around and we say
that families are responsible for each

one of their kids, which they are,
regardless of what schools do or don't

do, families are still responsible for it.

That can take the pressure off of that
counselor if they have parents who are

involved and engaged and really taking
that responsibility seriously, which by

the way, every single parent takes it
as seriously as they possibly can and

as responsibly as they possibly can.

So we start from that framework, from
that setup, and we say, alright, let's say

that 200 of these 385 kids have a parent
who is capable, involved and supporting.

That leaves 185 students for that
counselor to be in charge of making

sure they get what they need.

And I had you and one other
person respond back and say, not

every parent is capable of that.

And boy, you're absolutely right.

Do you wanna share your
perspective on that real quick?

Oh yeah.

so, when I think about the parent being
responsible, I think about my mama.

You know, my mom had four kids at 20.

By the time she was 21,
she had four children.

My mom come from, we come
from a pretty decent family.

I. You know education was something
that was big in my family.

As a matter of fact, we, I come from a lot
of principals, a lot of administrators,

reading specialists you know shucks, one
of my aunties started a school, you know.

So I come from, I come from,
from, from big school but.

I also come from the part, the portion
of the family in which my mom, you

know she didn't have the capacity to,
to monitor our learning, whether or

not she was a good person, whether or
not she desired to be a good parent.

It, it, it just wasn't there.

One of the consequences of that were, is.

Every last one of us had to repeat
a grade, you know all four of her

children had to re repeat a grade.

And and, and when I was reading
your response, I what I felt.

And, you know, I do believe that
parents have the responsibility to

participate in the children's education.

And if they do, they can take some
burden off of the educators or the

state sponsored educational system.

But what I was saying
in response was that.

Yeah, you know, my mom and didn't
have that, she didn't have the

capacity to monitor our education.

And teaching in this Birmingham, Alabama
and Birmingham City Schools school system.

You have these, these very large
populations of people who are just

like my mom, like whole schools
of parents who are like my mom.

You know what I mean?

They don't have the capacity to to
monitor the educational system, but

that also goes on a generational basis.

Did their parent have the capacity?

Their parent, grandparent have the
capacity, their great grandparent

have capacity, and if you keep on
going to those greats, you, you

wind up, especially in the African
American community, you wind up in

a pot of what is called slavery.

You know what I mean?

You, you, you, you are in slavery
in which you are the product

of somebody else's wealth.

So being the product of somebody
else's wealth and then thinking about

generational trauma that keeps on going
and going and going and these large

portions of community, I, it's this
lady by the name of Yvette Jackson.

Yvette Jackson wrote this, this book,
one of my favorite educational books is

called The Pedi Pedagogy of Confidence.

And what y Yvette Jackson said
is that, just like you said, all

parents want people to, to they
want their children to learn.

But Yvette Jackson just goes into
say that so, so do the child, right?

So do the child.

The child wants to go ahead and to learn.

I had thought about
Yvette Jackson yesterday.

And, and I didn't put her in into it.

But nonetheless, when you, when you
come from the product of somebody

else's wealth, and then you have
all of these generational issues,

and these two are state sponsored.

I, I personally believe that it, it
for certain populations it might be.

Or, or, or a case of reparations
to to to lean in a little bit

more on the state initiative.

You know, that's how I feel.

So you, you had this point about how.

Parents may not have the capacity,
and a whole group of parents

may not have the capacity.

And, and yet your mom and every other
mom and every other dad out there wants

their kids to be successful, wants
their kids to succeed, and they may or

may not have the ability to do that.

And so what we do is we come in and
provide support to them, and I had

another person write me and say.

Hey, I would've never thought of
doing I would've never thought of

going to college unless somebody from
the school had mentioned it to me.

And, and this is exactly my point.

We need to enable those educators to
assist where they are really needed and

free up their opportunities free up their
time to have those opportunities, to

really assist those who really need it.

And the reason why this all comes back
to AI is that whole article was about AI

taking over the, the counseling portion
in high school and where that can be a

benefit.

And, and you said something specifically
that I really appreciated, that it allows

someone to get some support without
judgment which is a very real thing

that, you know, I, I'm a very smart

person.

And I know the education

system and you would not believe
how many times special educators

have tried to make me feel

dumb because I didn't understand or
wanted something different for my

daughter.

And that just doesn't make any sense, and
yet it happens, and I can only imagine

how much worse that is for different
marginalized communities that I'm not a

member of in the disability arena.

I definitely do understand
that because that has been my

experience, so.

So this idea of, of somebody being able
to get a space free from judgment where

they can get support, where they can
get guidance, they can get what they

need and it will respect their dignity.

I think that's absolutely

a powerful thing for, Parents have access

to, Especially when they don't
have the skills otherwise.

And what a blessing that could

be for them to go do the research,
learn what they need to say, and then

go have the confrontation with the

teacher.

'cause you do a lot
better when you have the

knowledge and information back you up.

Yes.

You know, I, You know, I always do like
this reflection on, on, on, on how I grew

up when I, when I talk about these things.

And, when I went to college, I
didn't have anybody help me out.

I, I didn't even have the
guidance counselor, you know.

I went to a largely white populated school
in which I was one outta 2000 students.

I was, one of a hundred
people who were not white.

I'm talking about from all
different ethnic groups as well.

I didn't, a guidance
counselor didn't bother.

I. Me with, with, with college or,
or, or, or career goals or anything.

And with, with that sidestep what
artificial intelligence would

have been able to do, would have
been able to, to teach me about

learning about financial aid to.

To to, to tell me different kinds of,
of trade schools that I could go to

or, or even doing an assessment to,
to figure out my interest, you know?

So, you know, I I, I, I believe
that I, artificial intelligence.

In this aspect would most definitely
be beneficial and can take off the,

of the pressure, but not only take
off the pressure of the counselors

and also for people who, who are, are,
are not seen in the community by the

counselors, you know, just because.

They're not causing a trouble
and, and, you know, they don't

open up their mouth, you know so
I I, I'm, I'm with you on that.

I believe the 100% that artificial
intelligence is something

that, that people can use.

And, and, and just like many of the
families that I deal with in Birmingham,

like some of these, some of these
parents, they, they have no clue.

And if they did have some assistance
with artificial intelligence,

first of all, they gotta have
somebody to teach 'em how to use it.

But but if they had some artificial
intelligence assistance, you know,

they'll be able to discover a, a ton
of things that wouldn't, that wouldn't

even have come into their mind.

So.

Yeah.

and and that piece there that, you
can really explore things that had

not even come into your mind before.

I, I got another quick story about this.

In 2013, I started building my
website, Jethro Jones dot com.

And as I did that, I tried doing a
website built in Jekyll, which is

a specific static site generator.

It's pretty nerdy.

I tried it.

I couldn't get it to work.

I didn't know where to
turn, and I gave up.

And 10 years later I
decided to try it again.

And the difference was that I
had chat, GPT, and so I would ask

chat, GPT, why this wasn't working.

Then it would tell me what I needed to
fix, and I don't know how to do coding.

I am not a programmer, but I know enough
that I can understand some things.

And then I told it as it
was fixing things for me.

I said, be very explicit in your
comments and explain every single

line so I know what's happening.

And I've been able to learn
and understand and start fixing

problems that I didn't know.

Were problems before, but now when it's
not working, I can say, oh, I think I

know what's what the problem is because
I've used AI to help me figure it

out and learn these different things.

And it has taken me to a new
level of confidence and belief

in myself, which is like so silly
and so amazing at the same time.

And, and that's where like.

Those things for me, that's great.

Those things for someone who, who
didn't think they could ever even

go to college, even more powerful.

Someone who didn't think they could
ever have a business or make a positive

impact on society even more powerful.

And that's, that's the kind of thing
that I want to open up, that's kind of

thing that I want to see more of in, in
our system and, and do things that, that

open the doors more for more people.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Big on the confidence thing
and, and like you I have all of

these big, big ideas, you know?

I. I remember as a young man I grew up
in the church and my granddad was pastor.

He had a little storefront church.

At the most, we had 45
people would be there.

You know and that's a, that's,
that's probably we serving food.

You know, food is being
served that Sunday.

But, but I don't know.

I, so, so, so what happens to me is
that I will go onto a story and then

I would do something like cough and
then all of a sudden the story is gone.

It is like magic.

Not a good kind of magic,
not a good kind of magic.

I know if I'm gonna catch that one back.

I don't know if this is, normally,
this doesn't happen this much, but

since I've been talking to Jethro,
this has happened three times.

I've been putting tally marks down,

so,

Hey, I, I have, I have that effect on

people.

I don't know what to say.

Yeah.

Nonetheless, I love my granddad.

How about that?

Yeah, that works.

I'll take it.

So we're gonna wrap up
the conversation here.

We're gonna have some great stuff
coming out from from Eli on this

podcast, AI and Education, real Talk.

It's gonna be fantastic.

I hope you stick around for it and
I hope you share it with others.

And if you got ideas or suggestions of who
Eli should have on just reach out anytime.

We'd love to hear from you.

What's the best way for people
to get in touch with you,

All right, so you can, you can get
in contact with me through my email.

It's HRIA, MLL c@gmail.com.

And, um, you know, I do have
social media, but I really

don't do social media like that.

So I don't, I I I don't check it.

So essentially email will be the best way.

100%. And also, lemme just say this
because not only are the people

that are current listeners, they're
gonna be people that's, that's

going to be coming onto this podcast
That, that I'm gonna bring on.

And so what I have to say is one,
if you have an idea of artificial

intelligence or you are exploring
artificial intelligence in a way that

you don't think that other people are in
engaged in, most definitely hit me up.

Let me know.

I also wanted, 'cause I'm gonna send
this to everybody, I'm also wanna

say, hey, thank you for everybody
who has been doing the podcast.

I am honored and I am very interested
in having these very good conversations

on artificial intelligence and how
to explore using it within education,

the whole entire frame of education.

With a very critical component on it.

So when I say critical, I mean we
want to examine power structures with

artificial intelligence and how those
power structures establish themselves.

So with that said, I just wanna
say thank you very much Jeff Row.

I appreciate you passing this
baton and I am going to do it.

To death.

We are gonna have a, we're gonna have an
amazing, we're gonna have an amazing time.

And I get to take the reins.

And hopefully the people that are
out there are already on there.

You stay, you stay a attuned because.

Just like Dale and I, the science guy
said, everybody has the ability to

learn from everybody that they meet.

So hopefully I can learn from
you and you can learn from me.